The View From Below: Thinking man's metal band - HEIR APPARENT interview with Terry Gorle.

Nearly after 30 years, US metal legend HEIR APPARENT returns with a new album! Seattle, WA's Heir Apparent was founded in 1984 by guitarist Terry Gorle. During 1985, Heir Apparent signed with Black Dragon Records and completed the first album "Graceful Inheritance" that was released in 1986. Up to this day, the debut album of Heir Apparent is considered as one of the best US metal albums of the 80s.

After highs and lows in the music industry and lineup changes, finally the band was signed by Metal Blade Records and released their second album "One Small Voice" (1989), one of the best progressive metal albums of all times. Although the future looked bright, tensions surrounding commitment and finances within the band caused a rift that split the group.

In 2011, Crystal Logic had a detailed interview with Terry Gorle regarding the history of Heir Apparent and you can read everything about the past HERE. 

"The View From Below" is the title of the third Heir Apparent album that is set for release on October 15th of 2018 via No Remorse Records.

"The View From Below" is produced by Tom Hall and Heir Apparent. Tom Hall has also produced all the previous Heir Apparent releases and he has also worked with Queensrÿche on "Queensrÿche" EP (1983) and "Empire" (1990), among others.

Tracklist:
1. Man in the Sky (Schwartz, Shaw)
2. The Door (Gorle, Shaw)
3. Here We Aren't (Sakiya, Shaw)
4. Synthetic Lies (Gorle, Blair, Shaw)
5. Savior (Gorle, Blair)
6. Further and Farther (Gorle, Shaw)
7. The Road to Palestine (Gorle, Shaw)
8. Insomnia (Gorle, Shaw)

Lineup:
Will Shaw – Vocals
Terry Gorle – Guitar
Derek Peace – Bass
Ray Schwartz – Drums
Op Sakiya – Keyboards

  

Terry Gorle is a very intelligent person and you can regard Heir Apparent as "thinking man's metal band", something that was used in the past for Queensrÿche. We tried to approach Heir Apparent and "The View From Below" differently than most interviews and since we already spoke about the past 7 years ago, now we are talking about the present, the future and the world. This is a very special and thoughtful interview with Mr. Terry Gorle.

 

- Heir Apparent are back with a new album, nearly 30 years after "One Small Voice". "One Small Voice" was different than the debut album "Graceful Inheritance", and so it is "The View From Below" compared to the other two. One name, three albums, three different musical statements. What connects those albums?

TG: The bassist, the drummer, and the guitarist! This seems like a question for the critics to answer, since my only goal is to write good songs that are fun to play, and utilize the talents of the singer. The band has a general philosophy about mankind being the guardian of the planet, and the importance of rising above cultural delusions and inequality, so I suppose there is a continuity in the general themes of our song lyrics.,

- "The world has made its choice, there is no turning back now". Does the world reflect each one of us and are there choices that can't be undone? Or we just gave away everything to the "Man in the Sky"?

TG: Will’s lyrics alternate between statements from a personal view, a cultural view, a view from a segment of society, or a generalized impersonal overview of a world condition. This leaves many things open for interpretation by the listener, and I think it allows every person to find what they connect with and relate to. Personally, I think almost anything can be undone, but whether or not problems can be fixed depends on the power of the forces responsible for creating and prolonging the problem, or their ability to indoctrinate and control perceptions…

- "We hold the key to unlock the door and open our minds". Isn't this a choice or "The Door" is so well hidden that there is no choice after all? What choices Heir Apparent did in the past that should be better locked behind the door?

TG: Again, the listener has the freedom to find their own interpretations. To me, the lyrics represent oppression by any form of government or cultural institution that hides the truth from the public. This is a common element in several of our songs over the years, speaking to individual strength and the quest for knowledge. To be independent in the sense that you use your own mind and not be an unquestioning follower or victim of deception.

- "Everything gone in an instant, sometimes over before it began". The new album is completed and it is out there. Do you believe that in the current music industry MUSIC and ART really matter for the masses or everything is few clicks in fast-forward and everyone has an opinion for everything despite his knowledge or not? Are we here or "Here We Aren't"?

TG: Well, the sad state of an instant gratification society and the constant propaganda of marketing to either drain your wallet or drain your brain is disconcerting. I hope that people can pull their heads out of the sand and be smarter than that. For me, this is a very emotional melancholy song about birth and death, the occasional feelings of futility that everyone feels from time to time, and the idea that our lives are inconsequential within the bigger picture of our infinitesimally small place in this vast universe over billions and billions of years. Ultimately, this life is all we have, so we owe it to ourselves to make the very most of every moment to be the very best we can be. Although there are no lyrics at the end of the song, I am trying to express despair becoming a sense of hope in the solo.

- "On these new paths deep inside my brain, all the charts and graphs can hardly explain". Have you followed new music over the last three decades and where do you believe Heir Apparent can stand today? Does it matter after all or you just want to create your own ART despite the "Synthetic Lies" of the industry?

TG: "Synthetic Lies" was conceived as a prelude to "Savior", and far more of a science fiction story about the human mind and its perceptions and vulnerabilities. I don’t follow music in general, as my time and extra money is limited. When I have time to listen to music, it’s usually something at least 25-50 years old. This album was written with a hope to appeal to a wide range of people. In 1985, the audience for our music was 14-30… now it is 14-65… We made no effort to go backwards or copy the past. We simply set out to write songs that we enjoyed playing that provided a landscape for Will’s talent. Hopefully the industry, or at least some people within the industry, will appreciate the fact we have come out of nowhere to create something unique and valid, that does not copy any trend or cater to shallow formula consumerism.

- "Man and machine sharing thoughts". How was the recording procedure of the new album? Do you believe that the way technology has evolved it affects music positive or negative?

TG: The process of recording this album was new to us. We did not use a traditional studio or record as a band playing at the same time like on the previous albums. I engineered all the instrument tracking at my house. Will recorded his vocals at Tom Hall’s house. The album was also mixed by Tom at his house. Digital recording allows endless variables, so you need discipline to say when enough is enough. We had time and budget constraints, so in that sense it was similar to using tape and analog… at $50 an hour, time has not changed over time. ;-)

- "Comfort is the enemy". The new album has a strong artistic vibe but it might be out of current trends. How "Further and Farther" do you believe you can go with Heir Apparent?

TG: It all depends on the fans and the industry. Today’s trend is tomorrows leftovers, so all we can do is create something we are proud of and let the people decide. We feel this is our most complete and comprehensive album that Heir Apparent has made. Our work is done for now. If the story of a band who can come back after 30 years to create a great album becomes something the industry decides to get behind, then we will take advantage of that opportunity. We know there is a certain existing fan base that will buy this and enjoy it. Our ability to survive as a band beyond this, let alone ever come close to the dream of being professional musicians, depends entirely on forces within the industry deciding to support this to an audience that as of today is unaware we even exist. If someone in a position of power decides this album represents a new trend, here we go… those things are out of our control.

- "All roads lead to Palestine". World, politics, jobs, daily life, the complete system of modern society seems lost. Are we really lost and every individual is trapped in daily routine? In the '60s and '70s people of the art made a difference with public statements. Can this happen again or we will never find "The Road to Palestine"?

TG: Good questions… to one extent or another, we are all living within those traps. As artists, all we can do is attempt to educate and spark conversations that open minds. People need to want to change, they need to want to make the world a better place. Sometimes the sacrifice required takes too much effort, and the day to day struggles provide an excuse for inaction. If mankind is capable of rising above their cultural delusions and vengeance in order to unite and find peace, all roads lead to Palestine. Mankind has a limited time to utilize science and technology to create a sustainable planet that can feed 10 billion people by 2050 without accelerating the extinctions of plant and animal species that are necessary for balancing this biosphere. We must unite in science and bring our best minds together before it’s too late. 

The sad alternative is that cultural delusions and greed-driven politics will result in tribal factions fighting for diminishing resources, which will only buy the ignorant “winners” a short amount of additional time in a world far too damaged to recover. I’m not siding with the fatalistic, I’m presenting the reason for being reasonable.  It’s time for mankind to unite toward preservation of life on this planet. To bring this full circle… Art, and the ability to create it, is a luxury that can only exist when not eclipsed by whatever else is required to survive.

- "Chasing the dream". There are many positive reviews on the new album and you are already planning live shows for 2019. I hope "Insomnia" won't reach Heir Apparent and the silent whispers will turn to shouts. In every aspect. So which are your future plans?

TG: We are very encouraged by the early reviews. Now we wait for actual sales and the continued interest from promoters to tour and support the album. We have done the work and made the investment and sacrifice to be here for the fans, and we hope for the very best in return.

- And finally, why "The View From Below"?

TG: These are very strained political times in America and around the world.  The resurgence in nationalism, paranoia, prejudice, greed, propaganda, and corruption. “The View From Below” represents anyone looking at the world while suffering from oppression or inequality, either social, political, or institutional. Also, the album art suggests evolution and the connections that exist between everything in this universe… from a spiral strand of DNA to a spiral galaxy. Life, and existence. We look forward to performing for you in 2019, and celebrating this.

At the moment, Heir Apparent are booking dates for live shows in 2019 and confirmed shows so far include:

Up The Hammers Festival (Sat 16 March 2019) Athens, Greece

Rock Hard Festival (Sat 8 June 2019) Gelsenkirchen, Germany

Headbangers Open Air (Sat 27 July 2019) Elmshorn, Germany

More dates TBA

Heir Apparent official website

Follow Heir Apparent on Instagram HERE

Follow Heir Apparent on Facebook HERE

Follow No Remorse Records on Facebook HERE

HEIR APPARENT - Terry Gorle interview

 
Heir Apparent is for sure one of the greatest US metal bands of the 80s. Recently, they announced a reunion tour with the original line-up and the brain of the band, guitarist Terry Gorle, was kind enough to share with us many important things about past situations and the history of this great band.

 

Heir Apparent are back and announced special shows with the original "Graceful Inheritance" line-up. How did this happen and why now?

Ray and Derek had talked about wanting to do some gigs. Ray contacted me, and I contacted Paul. It all came together quickly. I contacted a few people in Europe who immediately expressed interest, then I started a Facebook page, and everything took off from there. Within a matter of days, we had offers from several people, and now a small reunion tour. It's a dream come true for me.

So, which are the confirmed shows until now and when are you coming to Greece? Which are your memories from the past show in Greece?

The itinerary I received today is this: Jan 14 - Wurzburg, Germany; Jan 15 - Thessaloniki, Greece; Jan 16 - Nicosia, Cyprus; Jan 17 - Athens, Greece.

The 2006 trip to Greece was great. I was very happy to be able to bring a group of guys with me who had never experienced anything like it. I remember visiting the Texas Club several times, the Harley Bar, exploring the subways in Athens to tour the city, and the train ride from Athens to Thessaloniki... it's a beautiful country. The fans are incredible. I had a great time and I'm really looking forward to returning with the original members. It will be their first time in Greece and it will be a special memory for all of us.

Are you reunited just for these shows or there will be new material? Have you written anything all these years?

We are just planning on doing these shows for now. We live 100 miles apart, so continuing on a steady basis would require some of us to relocate our families and rearrange our lives. It's a tough thing to do with jobs and other responsibilities. However, Paul and I have made plans to record a new album, so we will fill in the band lineup as the situation develops. Hopefully it can work out for everyone. I've written a lot of ideas... I can pick up my guitar and improvise new songs, so it won't be a problem. The main issue has always been finding other musicians/vocalists who want to spend the time and do the work.

Lets go back in time... What do you remember from your early days and how did you sign with Black Dragon Records for the first album? Did you had other offers and which was the response of the fans and press for "Graceful Inheritance"?

In the early days, 1983, I bought a PA system, rented a house with a basement and built a soundproof rehearsal room. Then, I started writing songs and looking for other musicians. Kim Harris (Queensryche's manager) had heard some of my tapes, sent them to EMI, and said he wanted to produce a solo guitar album. I was more interested in creating a band. Eventually, I found players who were interested. My house had 5 bedrooms, so Derek and Paul moved in. That allowed us to rehearse almost every day, and it was a great environment for being creative and spontaneous. 

We booked time in the studio to record Graceful Inheritance in July of 1984, and Kim Harris was going to produce the album for $20,000. Queensryche demanded Kim's full attention, so he backed out of managing Heir Apparent at the last minute. So, I borrowed $3000 from my parents, and we cut the studio time back and quickly recorded 5 songs. Two of the songs, "Keeper of the Reign" and "Tear Down the Walls" received some local radio play, and so I started sending tapes out to magazines. In August of 1984, the drummer (Jim Kovach) quit, so we replaced him with Ray Schwartz and kept writing songs. By 1985 I was able to borrow another $5000 from friends to begin recording the album. I sent those tapes to more magazines, and eventually Black Dragon made contact with me. They provided the additional $5000 that we needed to complete the album and "Graceful Inheritance" was finished by October of 1985. The album was released in Europe January of 1986 and the response from most of the European press was great. We toured France, The Netherlands and Germany in May and June of 1986. During the tour we began to see problems with the relationship of Black Dragon, they breached our contract and they didn't pay us. Then, it was over... we came home with no jobs, no rehearsal room, no management, no US record deal and nothing on the horizon. Derek quit and moved to LA. I regrouped and started writing one on one with Mike Jackson on keyboards in September of 1986... Essentially, I started over. Within 6 months Derek had returned and we found Steve Benito and started a new chapter. But, I can't help but wonder how much different our lives would have been if we would have been able to keep the original plan of recording "Graceful Inheritance" in 1984 with Kim Harris... twice the recording budget, a US deal, and professional management with major label contacts.

Which are your strongest memories from that tour and the US metal scene of the 80s?

We toured three countries in Europe in 1986 for 6 weeks, the Metal Hammer Roadshow, with Savage Grace. We started the tour as the opening band... we ended the tour as the headliner. I think the 80's metal scene is my most favorite period of music and musicianship during my lifetime. There was a lot of candy ass garbage on the radio in the US, but we all loved the bands who influenced us and never received the Hollywood hype. 

Which ones were your favorite bands back then?

Rainbow (w/Dio), Deep Purple, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Dio, Black Sabbath... those were the bands who inspired the whole Seattle Metal scene starting in the early 1980's. 

In 1989 "One Small Voice" was released. What happened in the meantime and why vocalist Paul Davidson was replaced from Steve Benito?

By early 1987, we had recorded "We, The People" and "Tomorrow Night" with Paul. The bassist for the sessions was Randy Nelson. We were renting Studio B at Triad to rehearse. Paul began losing his voice, and it appeared that he wouldn't be able to continue for long. He came to me one day and told me that he needed to leave the band. It was sheer coincidence that we heard a voice coming from Studio A during that time that sparked our interest... and we then located and recruited Steve Benito from Portland, Oregon, 180 miles away. Ray and I drove down to Portland, and I paid Steve $400 to settle some debts he had so he could move to Seattle and join Heir Apparent.

 

There was a strange situation around this album and maybe you can clear the things. They cut you from the album photo of the band and you name is mentioned seperately from the other members as "guitar parts performed by Terry Gorle". What was happening, who had the rights of the name and who is responsible for the final choice of these songs? Are you happy with those songs and the production of "One Small Voice"?

To make a very long story short, I am the owner of the trademark/trade name Heir Apparent. I've owned everything, including the business license since 1984. As you can see from earlier comments, I was the founder of the band. It was my dream and my philosophy behind it. Out of necessity to make life as easy as possible for the other bandmembers to become involved and stay motivated, in addition to writing most of the songs, I needed to be the manager, the studio provider, the equipment provider, and the primary person responsible for finding investors (who ultimately were people who believed in me. Friends of mine who were willing to loan the band money to record and promote ourselves). I also provided a place to live, and I found a job for Steve when he moved here (he is still involved in a related business after all these years). I consistently wanted Heir Apparent to be a partnership of shared responsibility, shared profits, and shared debts. I tried this in 1984, and the band refused... Paul was the only member who would make a partnership committment. I tried this again in 1987 with the new band, and they again refused...  By 1988 I was under increasing pressure to repay band debts. All the debts were in my name and we were borrowing more money all the time to pay for new demos and promotional expenses. My wife and I were personally paying for almost everything. I negotiated the album contract with Metal Blade/Capitol for 9 months. I was in debt about $20,000 in the name of Heir Apparent by the time we finally signed the recording contract. It was a 7 album deal with $600,000 in recording advances. Our first album advance was $25,000. I went to the band with another plea to form a partnership and become a true business, and I stressed the importance of taking $5000 from the recording contract advance and making a good faith gesture to our investors who had been very patient for several years. The band refused. Instead, they conspired to avoid any responsibility to pay the band debts... Behind the scenes during the recording of One Small Voice, they were plotting to remove me from the band when the album was finished. They voted their choices for the songs that would be recorded for the album, they removed my influence as much as possible, minimizing the importance of the guitar parts in the final mixes, and removing Questions and Cry for Rome from the track list. Then, Steve took the entire project $5000 over budget to add more vocals and keyboards. I was outraged at his arrogance.

A week after we took new photos for the album cover, I received a phone call on March 10, 1989 from Julie Hines (a girl acting as the band manager in LA) telling me that I was being removed from the band. I was devastated, and I was forced to file a lawsuit to regain my name and my rights. They stole my dream, my band, my publishing credits, my record contract (where I am specified as bandleader and the sole person to make band decisions), my trademark, and my hope. I received a phone call from a friend to tell me that One Small Voice was in record stores. I drove to the store to buy my own copy... I never received anything from Metal Blade/Capiltol or the band. 

Looking back, I perceived their actions against me as pure evil, not to mention totally illegal. Their intentional actions caused me a great deal of pain, and they knew it would. I was forced to sit quietly on the sidelines for 18 months while they toured and reaped the rewards of their coup. I won my lawsuit in settlement on November 14, 1990. But what did I really win? I was still devastated. The others were found guilty of Copyright Infringement, Trademark Infringement, Breach of Contract, and Tortious Interference. But, by then they had destroyed everything I'd built. The Metal Blade/Capitol contract had been terminated and the debts were still unpaid. Technically, Metal Blade breached the contract with me as well. I never sued them.

Over the years it has become clear to me that the best path is to rise above the circumstances and forgive them. I have taken it upon myself to repay several thousand dollars to as many of the original investors I could find since signing the reissue deal with Hellion in 1999. Now, we are grown men... Ray and Derek have apologized for their part and we are moving forward. I have not seen Michael or Steve in 21 years. I remain hopeful that we will be able to reconcile at some point in the future. I wish them well.

What kind of person was Steve Benito?

There is no denying Steve is an extremely talented vocalist. He is very intelligent as well. Unfortunately, he would sometimes be extremely brash and offensive in public situations when he thought he was being funny. He was very opinionated, and very used to getting his way. I consistently asked him to scream less and add some Dio power to his style... I think that my suggestions offended him, although I can hear that he eventually followed my advice in the demo recorded while they were still illegally using the name Heir Apparent in 1990. The only time I confronted Steve with my outrage was when he belittled a very good friend of mine who had gone out of his way to be a roadie and photographer for the band. Steve expected the world to be given to him on a silver platter... that was his biggest fault. He lacked appreciation or empathy for others. But, I excuse all of that now, expecting that he has learned and grown from his experiences over the years.

There was only one live show with this line-up? What happened after the release of "One Small Voice"?

Heir Apparent played several shows in 1987/1988. We played a large pavilion in Lacey, a club in Seattle, a club in Lynnwood, a high school in Maple Valley, and at our last gig we replaced Poison to open for David Lee Roth in the Seattle Center Coliseum in 1988. I have no idea what happened after the release of One Small Voice, because I was totally removed from having any contact. I only know what I have read from reviews and rumors.

What is your occupation?

I was a tilesetter/stone mason for 20 years, until several injuries forced me to find a new career.  I've torn my left shoulder, and muscles in both elbows/forearms that required surgery over the past 15 years. I cannot continue the physical demands of the trade without further risk of injury. So, I have just completed two years of college to earn my Associates of Technical Arts degree in Web Application Development, and I'm currently working for Cascadia Community College as an independent contractor to build their new international website. I'm also still in school, finishing my Digital Forensics Certificate by December of 2011.

In the late 90s, "Graceful Inheritance" was re-released from Hellion Records along with a great compilation entitled "Triad", including amazing songs like "Tomorrow Night" and "Cry For Rome". Do you have other material from that era or there is any other material under the name Heir Apparent without you from Benito and the guys, after "One Small Voice"?

There is a 4-song demo that was recorded in 1990 when Steve, Derek, Michael, and a drummer from Steve's old band in Portland were illegally using Heir Apparent as a name, which I've already referred to. There are some live tapes, videos, and rehearsal things recorded with Paul and Steve during the legitimate period of the band. In short, most of the material is already available and the rest will remain in its place for a while... ;-)  I remastered the "One Small Voice" album in 2000, I added the song "The Haunting" and "Two Hearts". I also re-recorded my guitar parts in several songs, mixig them over the stereo master to return some of the missing power and energy of the original 1989 release.

How did you decided to come back in action after a while, for those live shows a couple of years before?

As long as people want to hear Heir Apparent, and I'm able to play, I'll be there. There have been several band lineups since 2000. My goal was always to find people who would make the effort to record a new album. But, none of the lineups was dedicated enough to make the time and energy committment required for new music. So, we played gigs of the old material. Now that Paul has expressed interest in writing a new album, he and I will proceed with a new plan.

What kind of equipment do you use?

I still play the Kramer Stagemaster American that I bought in 1987 and loaded with EMG pickups... the same guitar used on One Small Voice and in Greece in 2006. I also have a Charvel Model 5, and a custom guitar of zebrawood and black limba I designed in 2000. I have been using Johnson Millennium amplifiers since 1998. They were discontinued in 2002, and I own two of them.  The Johnson Millennium is a digital modeling amp with twin tube preamps. It's the only amp that can emulate all the sounds and effects from the two Heir Apparent albums.

So, what should we expect from Heir Apparent now?

All I can promise is that I will do my very best to perform to the very best of my ability and to record new music for the fans of Heir Apparent. I just need a little help from my friends...  ;-)

Can't wait to see you in Greece, add anything else that you want.

I'm very excited and thankful for our opportunity to return. The last trip was great and I have every reason to believe this next trip will be even better! Thank you, and thanks to everyone for their dedication and support over the years! 

It is a true honor for me. I hope to have time to meet and visit with as many fans as possible during this trip. Don't be shy, come up and introduce yourselves.

Official Heir Apparent site

Apparently Music (YouTube channel)